athenieades caeli castle

oh no

8:48 AM

crying spell..?

8:48 AM

for no reason??

@bun @Oceanus Caeli ༺🌟🌊༻ can u guys call me at like 6:00 to make sure im awake? i have to go to china tmr

I will do my best because I'm usually transiting home at that point yessir

thank you!!!

10:59 AM

maybe i should do mask commissions actually

10:59 AM

these are super fun to make!! and they’d probably go for quite a bit

11:00 AM

i could charge maybe 300 on a mask

i should be home :] or on the way. i will try my best.

GUYS I HAVE GREAT NEWS!!

7:59 AM

@here our first term ends in october!!!!

7:59 AM

that means we have TWO WHOLE MONTHS leading up to christmas when we can have maybe even a little more time together

！！

YEAAAAA

being emotional while in a lot of physical pain doesnt help

3:06 PM

at all!!

heals you

maybe i shouldnt have had ice coffee

3:16 PM

earlier today

3:16 PM

haha

3:16 PM

drink ice codfee

3:16 PM

panic attack

3:17 PM

oh ghats lightning !

pk;ap off

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im having a super very bad panic attack actually

okay no i can’t. do this anymore don’t read if you’re not in the right mental place because im doing bad i’m just. gonna be straight up rn i don’t think i’ve been a good partner and honestly i never have and i don’t think i deserve a place here. i don’t think i should be here because all i do is hurt all of you and make you feel invalidated and panicky and like you can’t have a safe or free space and i can’t take hurting you guys anymore. i can’t do this. all i do is hurt the people i love. i can’t make you guys believe that i love you. i don’t make you guys feel safe or comfortable. i feel like im really manipulative and abusive to you guys. i don’t believe i have a place here and i don’t want to hurt you guys anymore. all i do is hurt you. all i’m good at is hurting the people i love and i’m not getting any better and i will never get better and you guys deserve so much more when all i’ll ever be is deadweight to this relationship. you giys dont feel safe sharing things or being upset around me. you guys are scared im gonna blow up and be upset. i cant do that to you. i’d rather not be a burden. i’d rather you guys be happy. i don’t have a place here.

it's. not that we're scared you're gonna blow up. i'm. horrified of telling you anythings wrong because every time i do, you either turn around and point at me for something else [ie. codependency thing you were very focused on] or relapse, reactivate twitter, and try and kill yourself. so i'm terrified of you ending up dead.

4:06 PM

there's more i'd like to say on this. actually. but im at work. it's something that's been weighing on me for a while, and it's only been compounded by the fact that every time we try to talk to you about feeling neglected/manipulated it usually ends up back on us.

4:06 PM

i'll expand on that more later i just wanted to. put it out there. i guess.

⸝⸝ kokomi ₊✎.. 🫧 ༓☾📜☽༓

there's more i'd like to say on this. actually. but im at work. it's something that's been weighing on me for a while, and it's only been compounded by the fact that every time we try to talk to you about feeling neglected/manipulated it usually ends up back on us.

alright, i’m going to need you to tell me directly about feeling manipulated because honestly that’s how i’ve been feeling for a good while now but i want to hear from you and your perspective

you're welcome to speak first. i'm very fried from today. i don't think i'll be able to expand on that today.

part one

11:13 PM

part two, censored because these are genuinely going to trigger you.

SPOILER

i am. so sorry. is there any way for you to send these as text and not screenshots?

there is more btw

⸝⸝ kokomi ₊✎.. 🫧 ༓☾📜☽༓

i am. so sorry. is there any way for you to send these as text and not screenshots?

not really, it’s very, very long

i can try and read these but my eyes are strained and i'm worried. but i can try!

11:16 PM

will attempt to. sorry, just prefer text for accessibility reasons ; w;

11:17 PM

okay i've. only read the first message. i won't respond properly but this doesn't feel like you unpacking anything on yohr end and it feels like constant finger pointing

11:18 PM

even if you are hurt. the finger pointing and blatant blame also hurts and it's why i'd prefer if you used "i" statements going forward rather than statements that make assumptions without any actual basis. ("it feels like so and so" rather than "you are actively doing so and so")

11:19 PM

i only read the first group of pictures but i need to step back briefly. i'll read the rest momentarily once that calms.

SPOILER

11:20 PM

you can save the images and select text w iphone

that's not the issue but thank you.

blue ↩️

Reply to: you can save the images and select text w iphone

11:22 PM

additionally. i. will not be able to respond to most of this tonight. i'm very shaky. but i would appreciate a lot of this beinng reworded

11:22 PM

you are lumping us and oceanus together as one entity rather than two different people with two very different brains.

I am going to be nice. And I'm going to be calm.

and that both hurts and makes me unsure about the specifics of certain things in your messages

But you need to reword this or it's just going to come across as you blaming us for everything and not taking the blame.

i won’t respond to this because my response is part of the one you didn’t read yet. you are proving what i typed out

blue

part two, censored because these are genuinely going to trigger you.

additionally i understand needing to step back to breathe and gather your thoughts. that’s normal. but it’s evident now that when you are very clearly on the losing end of your own argument and you have no way to turn it around, you run away from it and never touch it again but tack on the false promise of getting back to it when you are in a better mind. there were things you guys kept claiming you needed to talk about since OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR that i still have no idea about. you can’t expect me to open that conversation up when it’s something you guys wanted to talk about without telling me things further.

SPOILER

Toast. I'm staying stepped back, but I need you to chill the fuck off and stop with the codependency talk. We've told you we know that we had codependency issues and are actively working on them. We have both been jobless and stuck in a very small living space 24/7 for two months with a LOT of stress and we are just now getting back to normalcy. So if nothing else, cool it the FUCK off with that.

i’ll tone it down in respect of your comfort but i will not stop, because you guys have refused to take other’s advice on the matter, and have actively dragged other people into the fights you have. i’m not rubbing it in your face, i’m telling you that it’s hurting more than just yourselves. again, you’re only really proving the points i talked about. so if you want that conversation to stop for the time being, then the convo ends here. if you choose to continue it, whether to defend yourself and explain, it’s on you for continuing.

no.

12:06 AM

you will stop.

12:06 AM

that is my line in the sand.

1

you will stop leveraging the codependency when we are actively working on it. you have not been present enough to know that. nor do i owe you the knowledge of what we are individually working on. because we specifically wanted to stop having those happen.

12:08 AM

you stop the codependency talk now. flat out. that is my line in the sand.

If that's how you see it. I will be closing this vent channel indefinitely. This isn't a way of unpacking, this is a way of pointing the blame completely and brushing aside any ounce of respect you have for us as humans.

1

12:08 AM

Learn to respect me and maybe I will speak again.

say whatever you want. but you bringing it up feels like it's brought up out of malice and not worry, when we've clarified time and time again that it is something we are aware of and working on.

bunny!! ༓☾📜☽༓ ↩️

Reply to: you stop the codependency talk now. flat out. that is my line in the sand.

12:09 AM

likewise. i'm stepping out of this channel again for multiple reasons. when you want to speak calmly and rationally, you can message back in here.

i am very calm and rational, actually. fine, i will cease talk of it, but you are going to have to show that you are working on it. saying it is out of malice takes away that ALL of your partners, not just myself, have been affected. i know i do not speak for them on their behalves and how they may see things as they have their own autonomy over this, but i will state that i am considering everyone’s general discomfort and hurt from what i’ve seen in the past. so no, it is not out of malice, but i will apologise for it coming off that way, as i can understand why it feels so and i would like to recognise your feelings, and i also recognise that you may be working on it behind the scenes.

dude this is ur own problem idk who you mean by everyone but uh. i mean i was frustrated at times but never enough to go to this length

12:19 AM

im mostly staying out of it

bunny!! ༓☾📜☽༓

likewise. i'm stepping out of this channel again for multiple reasons. when you want to speak calmly and rationally, you can message back in here.

and in saying i am not calm and rational, you are also deflecting and saying something to try and make me believe that i am out of my right mind. that is gaslighting. you are once again proving what i had sent above.

alois! || —(••÷[ т.c.s ]÷••)—

im mostly staying out of it

it’s okay, you can stay out of it, i dont intend for this to be an invitation to be a part of it i’m sorry for bringing it up, i just know that i wasn’t the only one who kinda got dragged into it, and i’m sorry for putting words in your mouth especially without double checking how you feel first, i know it’s really shitty to do on my part

its ok i just. the only thing i have to add is that it feels like there was a better way to go abt this cuz sitting on something for so long only makes it feel so much worse when it doesnt need to be. but also i havent been around long enough to know what Is going on so ill leave it at that.

thats true!! i understand where ur coming from w that

Sorry. Just responding to this. Please go read the definition of gaslighting. Making an observation that you are not speaking calmly and making irrational statements is not gaslighting. You are not acting calm and your words do not depict any calmness either. I am allowed to say you are not acting calm to me. Please stop saying "you're proving what I sent above" I have told you that I will respond in depth to the above when I'm not dealing with something.

blue ↩️

Reply to: and in saying i am not calm and rational, you are also deflecting and saying something to try and ma…

Athenaeum Col.︲༓☾📜🖋☽༓ ༺🌟🌊༻

Sorry. Just responding to this. Please go read the definition of gaslighting. Making an observation that you are not speaking calmly and making irrational statements is not gaslighting. You are not acting calm and your words do not depict any calmness either. I am allowed to say you are not acting calm to me. Please stop saying "you're proving what I sent above" I have told you that I will respond in depth to the above when I'm not dealing with something.

Where did they do that? Mm?

when you want to speak calmly and rationally,

this is a line that has been used many times, and i recognise now that this would always be used to shut down the conversation about something concerning under the guise that i wasn’t mentally well enough to be having that talk. in some cases yes, but other times, including now, i am left severely doubting my own thoughts.

12:36 AM

i am rational and calm right now. i know this for a fact. i would not be as organised with my thinking and strong enough to stand my ground if i weren’t. i would be apologising incessantly.

sooo what do you want. like there's clearly a problem here so what do you want them to do to fix it or begin to acknowledge it so they can fix it

it’s all in the screenshots i sent from the notes app i want them to acknowledge that this is happening. not that i had sent it and said my piece, i want them to acknowledge that this has been happening.

The situation we've just passed is not considered gaslighting. Gaslighting involves a deliberate and manipulative effort to make someone doubt their own perceptions, memories, or reality. In the exchange between you and I:

I am expressing a desire to continue the conversation later when I feel it can be more calm and rational.
You accuses me of gaslighting by saying that assuming you are not calm or rational is itself gaslighting.

However, my statement doesn't involve manipulating your perception of reality. It’s more of a boundary-setting statement rather than an attempt to distort your sense of reality or make them question their own emotional state. While you may feel dismissed or invalidated, it's important to distinguish between that feeling and the more specific and severe manipulation that constitutes gaslighting. The conversation could be considered tense or potentially dismissive, but it doesn't fit the criteria of gaslighting. By accusing me of gaslighting in that, you are raising further accusations of abuse against me, which hurts, and only furthers my point that you are not calm nor rational enough to continue this.

u cant bomb a guy with 11 screenshots and say "hey fix this" like thats a lot to just dump on someone

Athenaeum Col.︲༓☾📜🖋☽༓ ༺🌟🌊༻

The situation we've just passed is not considered gaslighting. Gaslighting involves a deliberate and manipulative effort to make someone doubt their own perceptions, memories, or reality. In the exchange between you and I:

I am expressing a desire to continue the conversation later when I feel it can be more calm and rational.
You accuses me of gaslighting by saying that assuming you are not calm or rational is itself gaslighting.

However, my statement doesn't involve manipulating your perception of reality. It’s more of a boundary-setting statement rather than an attempt to distort your sense of reality or make them question their own emotional state. While you may feel dismissed or invalidated, it's important to distinguish between that feeling and the more specific and severe manipulation that constitutes gaslighting. The conversation could be considered tense or potentially dismissive, but it doesn't fit the criteria of gaslighting. By accusing me of gaslighting in that, you are raising further accusations of abuse against me, which hurts, and only furthers my point that you are not calm nor rational enough to continue this.

and in saying that last part, you are forcing me to stand down and submit under the guise that i am not well enough to acknowledge what i have been seeing and feeling. you are telling me that i am not in the right mind to be feeling what i do.

I am expressing a desire to continue the conversation later when I feel it can be more calm and rational.

you could have simply said it as your own feelings. the ambiguity in your initial statement of “likewise. i'm stepping out of this channel again for multiple reasons. when you want to speak calmly and rationally, you can message back in here.”, makes it seem as though you are telling me that i am not calm and rational, pushing all of it onto me. stating you weren’t feeling ready for this conversation would have been enough, because that is understandable. you didn’t state it was because of how you were feeling directly.

you accuse me of gaslighting by saying that assuming you are not calm or rational is itself gaslighting.

and assuming that i am not calm and rational in and of itself is already a very bold thing to do, however you have used similar lines in the past to end conversations involving something regarding my discomfort. assuming as such and telling me this, when you have done so time and time again and have it work almost every time because i didn’t know if i could believe my own feelings after being blatantly told i wasn’t well, is manipulating my perception of reality and telling me i am not sane enough to have the conversation. if it is a boundary for YOURSELF, then say so. using what you assume is my current state of mind as setting a boundary is just wrong.

??? || —(••÷[ т.c.s ]÷••)—

u cant bomb a guy with 11 screenshots and say "hey fix this" like thats a lot to just dump on someone

and i understand that, hence why i am notably not pushing for them to read it at the moment and leaving it be, but you also did just ask me what i’d like to be fixed and to just say it. i’m not mad or upset, nor have i been this entire conversation, though i will say this does feel like a fallacy. so to clarify, i’d like it acknowledged, yes. does it have to be right now? no, i never said so, but i can understand the assumption.

You are not acting like someone who is calm and rational would. That is what I will say. I ACTIVELY avoided speaking about why I needed to step back, and said multiple reasons to show that it wasn't JUST your lack of calmness. That it was an important part to mention. I was actively trying to make that as soft as possible. I am telling you that you are not acting calmly nor rationally. I can OBSERVE that as that is how you're speaking to me. If you want to continue believing that, you can. But I am telling you that it does not line up with the definition of gaslighting to tell you that you are acting irrationally.

1:01 AM

You have scolded us for stepping back, though? Your words indicate strong anger and upsetness. Once again. We told you we read it. We already acknowledged we could not do this tonight. And then you belittled us for stepping back.

blue ↩️

Reply to: and i understand that, hence why i am notably not pushing for them to read it at the moment and leav…

blue

additionally i understand needing to step back to breathe and gather your thoughts. that’s normal. but it’s evident now that when you are very clearly on the losing end of your own argument and you have no way to turn it around, you run away from it and never touch it again but tack on the false promise of getting back to it when you are in a better mind. there were things you guys kept claiming you needed to talk about since OCTOBER OF LAST YEAR that i still have no idea about. you can’t expect me to open that conversation up when it’s something you guys wanted to talk about without telling me things further.

because stepping back under the guise that i was unwell isn’t right. yes, you mentioned other very nonspecific reasons, yet somehow this one was a very clear call to something you wanted to pick out. it could have been left completely nondescript, yet by stating very specifically me being calm and rational and leaving everything else nondescript (though i am not asking you to specify because those can be private) you end up turning me into the reason that you have to step away, which reads as running away by, once again, using a line that you have used on me multiple times. you are not acknowledging that part for what it is. it is an appeal to emotion. that is a fallacy at best. also, might i mention, you were the one who blocked me? and you both were the ones who said you were closing my vent chat indefinitely? i made it a point not to toggle the @ when replying so you did not have to deal with the notification of a direct reply. you put words into my mouth by saying i am belittling you for taking a step back and for scolding you. what i said in my additional message talks about something i have noticed, backed up by the fact that it has been mentioned by you that your brain takes one side having all the blame as closure, and it can be inferred here in that message that that side cannot be you. in saying that i am scolding and belittling you, you are pinning the blame onto me and again, proving my point. asking me to reword what i said told me it wasn’t fully read because of how much context followed afterwards. assuming so was a fault in my part, i will acknowledge that, though i made a statement to point out that it was all in there. the statement i am replying to now is me telling you that this has, in fact, happened before, and many times. that on its own needs its own acknowledgment. if you want to take a step back, then do so. i’m not keeping you here, i’m not telling you to continue this conversation. if you want the conversation to stop, then stop responding. i am not trying to win an argument, i am not trying to make you lose face, i am only stating what i have been given and what i know to be a commonality, hence why it was addressed.

My apologies.

1:28 AM

Toast, Toast do you realize that you've done the exact same thing down to page count that Lear did?

1:29 AM

That's all.

1:33 AM

Don't respond to that.

1:33 AM

Just think about it.

1:34 AM

Don't. Respond. Toast.

no. i’m tired of being compared to abusers. you’ve done this so. many. times. i don’t know what lear did to the fullest extent and i wish them death for hurting bun, what i was doing was putting my foot down and not standing for something that wasn’t okay. you are comparing me to an abuser for standing my ground and telling you what’s very severely wrong, and i am responding accordingly as such. saying so implies that i am emotionally manipulating you and taking away your autonomy as a person.

i mentioned my other reasons, however vague, FIRST. for that reason. if i am keeping it vague there is likely a reason, and i will continue to leave it there. the part about your emotions was only mentioned as it was relevant to you and the situation. not to place blame on you. and yes. in the past i haven't been able to have conversations because my mental load has, frankly, been insane and i have not had the mental space time or energy to have more than barebones conversations with most people at the moment. i explain that if it is the case. if i am stepping back for another reason, it is because i will not have a serious conversation with someone in an altered state. that could be anything from the obvious (drugs, alcohol, etc etc) to things like spirals, mood swings, splits, emotions. because you cannot be rational and calm if you are speaking primarily from anger or a split. i never once said that you weren't sane enough. every time i said that i would not be continuing the conversation in whatever state i mentioned prior. i am allowed to be uncomfortable with serious conversations in those states, and i am allowed to clearly communicate that i will continue a conversation out of a spiral, when the emotions pass, etc. i tell you so that way you KNOW and UNDERSTAND that i am not stepping back for any reason other than to ensure that when the conversation happens it is as clear and rational as possible. me saying "i will continue this when you're not in your current state" is NOT wrong. it is communication with all that you have given me through tone, diction, and command of language.

blue ↩️

Reply to: because stepping back under the guise that i was unwell isn’t right. yes, you mentioned other very…

1:39 AM

also can you please stop using therapy speech to try and snap at us both/pin us as "wrong" when you're not using the terms correctly.

blue ↩️

Reply to: no. i’m tired of being compared to abusers. you’ve done this so. many. times. i don’t know what lea…

You know enough to know that that was fucked up.

blue ↩️

Reply to: no. i’m tired of being compared to abusers. you’ve done this so. many. times. i don’t know what lea…

that was mentioned not because you stood your ground. it was the METHOD OF DELIVERY. which you have been told of multiple times, that triggered me because it is one of the worst emotional traumas i have with a friend/relationship out of family to date.

1:41 AM

stop trying to frame it like they were trying to tell you not to speak for yourself. they were talking about the METHOD OF DELIVERY coupled with the tone and accusatory language that is far from "unpacking what we both did wrong" that we were told this was going to be earlier.